Ultimate Deer Cartridge - Guest Experiences - Page Two

Yes, at short ranges the bullet can expand over dramatically, and has occasionally torn up a little extra meat, but I have never lost a game animal hit with this bullet. My friends, for years, called this my death ray load. Have killed a train car load of coyote. a pickup truck load of deer, and one black bear with this load.

Those are my experiences, John Ward
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Mark Ameral, E-Mail 03/19/08:
While I wouldn't argue that a .243 could take a mule deer at a over 300 yards in the right hands, I would argue that taking a mule deer, caribou or elk with that size cartridge is not something the average hunter should attempt. It can be done, but just because something can be done it doesn't mean that the higher percentage of the time it won't be done in a quick ethical manner.

I would also say that there is a huge difference between the way a bow kills an animal and the way a gun kills an animal. Shock of a rifle as opposed to blood loss of  bow. This is just my opinion, but it goes along with my displeasure of the people who take much longer shots than their own personal skills allow them to make a clean, humane kill just because they are shooting a heavy magnum cartridge.

It is in my humble opinion, unethical and an abomination of the standard hunter ethics. It gives the people who hate hunting ammunition to try and stop everyone from hunting. I believe that all hunters should operate in a manner that puts them above reproach, as this is the best for all. Thanks for listening. Mark Ameral
- I Agree with Mark!
I intend to modify some of my statements to indicate that they only apply to those that have the skills & judgment to take proper clean kill shots with appropriate calibers', cartridges & terminal performance bullets. - Darrell U

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Mr. Udelhoven, I read your Web Pages about the ultimate deer cartridge.  I was intrigued with the notion of a bullet that would drop a deer in there tracks because of hunting here in SC the brush is thick in most cases.  A run from a deer of 50 -100yds could result in a lost deer very easily.  So finding a bullet that would drop a deer in a 243-Win caliber would be most beneficial.
I have two daughters that will be shooting the 243 this year.  I'm not a rifle expert by no means, but here in SC we do not have a limit on the number of deer we can take, so several can be taken a year.  I had sighted my daughters guns in with Remington Core locks 100 grain bullets.  The guns shoot good groups to 100 yds which would cover any shot my daughters would attempt.  We'll are chance came to hunt a friends property this past weekend the shots taken were:

(1) 40 yds on a 110 lbs 3 point hit through the lungs.  A quarter inch hole on entrance side and a 1-1/8" hole on the exit.  Travel was 10 yds.
 

(2) 75 yds on a 160 lbs 6 point hit in the low shoulders by my youngest daughter age 7.  a quarter inch hole on the entrance and no exit.  The bullet lodged under the skin on the far side.  Bullet was recovered and mushroomed perfectly. Travel was 63 yds.
 

(3) 80 yds on a 100 lbs doe hit in the high shoulder. A quarter inch entrance and a 1/2" exit. Travel was est. at 70 yds.

These deer were all shot with 100 grain Remington Core-lokts.  And they did travel.  So I wanted to try your 85 grain sierra hollow point boat tails.  I gave a half box to my friend and told him to shoot a couple of deer with them.  I told him to hit one in the lungs like the first then hit one in the shoulder.  Well last night I received a call from him saying don't use those bullets.  He had a doe at 30 yards broad side that he shot.  The deer ran at least 100 yds that he could see. Hunting in a marsh pond.  He attempted another shot but believed he missed on the second.  He will be trying to locate this deer today Nov. 8, 2001.  If he locates this deer it will the 24th deer this year for him.  If he does not it will be the first that he has lost.  He has been using 243 win. 100 grain Winchester supreme high velocities bullets.  I will send you another email with the results of his search.  I hope he finds this deer so we can Identify the hit he made and bullet performance or lack there of.
Sincerely
Keith W. Wade

Here's another experience for your records. I normally use a 45-70, or 30-30 calibre, but decided to use my .243 bolt action to fill the doe permits since its so light and never used it on deer before . Loaded it with 95 grain BT (95 gr., Sectional Density is .230) from Remington. Got a 150 lb doe with it at 60 yds. Hit right behind the shoulder and exited the other side of the rib cage. Exit wound was maybe an inch wide. Chunks of blood and viscera were everywhere, including a single large handful of lung or something. Doe jumped up and bolted at the initial hit and went about 20 yards, laid down and then died in about 30 seconds. After this experience I'm still on the fence about the suitability of this bullet and cartridge.

No question the deer would have died, the explosive expansion of the bullet was surprising. The insides were literally pureed in the area of the wound but I wonder what would have happened if I hit the shoulder or how far a more stubborn deer would have been able to run. 30 seconds sitting on the ground breathing heavy is a long time and reaches my personal threshold as to whether I have executed a humane kill. Definitely not the same type of kill as a 45-70 thru the shoulders.

Hopefully I will have some more experiences to share with you this fall as I will be using the .243 to fill at least one of the doe permits to see how it performs. Still don't know how I should classify that earlier kill. Keep up the web site, hope to read a little more about others experiences with the .243 and BTs. best  wishes with the upcoming hunting season. Constantine.

My Reply:

I received the September issue of Petterson's HUNTING, There was an article on page 80, "The Ultimate Deer Caliber."

This particular article states that the minimum Sectional Density he would use is .210, with minimal 2000 fps at impact and 1000 ft/lbs of energy. Shot placement is always the most important element in achieving quick, humane kills.

If you don't hand load, I would buy either Federal's or the Hornady 100 grain cartridge in the flat base or BTSP "Interlock" (best) bullet (Sectional Density (SD): .242).
MV is 3100 fps, @ 400 yds 2138 fps, and 1014 ft/lbs of energy. This is plenty of wallop to kill a deer. Remington has the core Lokt (CL) 100 grain bullet, that also holds together well.

I have great confidence in the .243 Winchester to perform quick kills on deer, at reasonable ranges when you put the bullet where it belongs. The 95 grain .243 bullet's SD: .230 | 100 grain SD: .242 |  270 Win .277 in 130 grain bullet is also .242 |

Petersen's Hunting magazine Website

Darrell  |  07-26-02
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E-mail received 11-09-01
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I gleaned this rec.hunting news-group post, 02-11-04

COYOTE HUNTING IN WISCONSIN